One Affinity Per 10 Levels

However, in a system where either affinities don't exist or affinities overlap with each other due to such a wide variety under each affinity... will it still feel like you're creating your own character?

Yes.

Because in the end, the spells they choose to use are exactly what they want. It's not a system where "Oh, you've reached level 6, time to shove a spell on you whether you like it or not."

Here's a middle ground suggestion, kinda going with Nimono's suggestion:


You can pick any number of affinities! WAIT WHAT? BUT here's the catch:

• All spells of that affinity get a multiplier of * 1.5 of the difference in successes when attacking the affinity they're strong against.
  
• Technically, I could write that the other way, but it makes no difference, cause they're the same thing.
  

Picking more affinities = you get access to more spells, buuuuut that also leaves you more vulnerable to more spells. Likewise, increased affinities means you have more ways to beat out other affinities. That said, the "All-Affinity Build" literally results in "All spells have a * 1.5 difference in successes against you, but you have the ability to pull that against anyone with affinities as well". Regarding Arcane affinity, it'd probably go something along the lines of Lunaria's suggestion, where you get access to various basic spells.


I'm not sure when exactly you'd be able to pick more affinities, but it's a thought. Thoughts?


EDIT: Alternate calculation:

• All spells of that affinity gain Dice equal to your level (or maybe half) when attacking the affinity they're strong against.
  

Another suggestion

• Remove Affinity levels completely.
  
• Allow the player to choose which affinities they want at character creation.
  
  • They can choose 1 affinity.
    
  • They can choose all affinities.
    
  • They cannot have Arcane with any other affinity.
    
    • Arcane, when I proposed it, was meant to be the "I don't want an affinity" affinity. Giving the player access to some spells, but these spells wouldn't be as potent as the ones under the other affinities.
      
• Remove Affinity Requirements on all spells, and replace the requirements with this:
  
  • REQUIREMENTS: Level # and no Arcane affinity.
  • INFORMATION: This is a [Affinity]-based attack.
    

  REQUIREMENTS: Level # and Arcane affinity.
  
• If you attack with an affinity-based ability, same weaknesses/strengths apply.
  
  • Water is strong against Fire is strong against Nature is strong against Water and so on...
    
  • Water is weak against Nature is weak against Fire is weak against Water and so on...
    
  • Shadow is strong against Light is strong against Shadow and so on...
    
  • Shadow is weak against Shadow and Light is weak against Light.
    
  If you use an Affinity-based Attack on a target, and you've got that Affinity, if the Affinity is strong against the target's Affinity:
  

  • Add successes equal to 1/2 of your Level, rounded up.
    

  If you use an Affinity-based Attack on a target, and you've got that Affinity, if the Affinity is weak against the target's Affinity:
  

  • Subtract successes equal to 1/2 of your target's Level, rounded up.
    

  
  

  In the case you attack someone with an Affinity that's affected by Two Affinities of the target, here's the process:
  

  • Add successes equal to 1/4 of your Level, rounded up.
    
  • Then Subtract successes equal to 1/2 of your target's Level, rounded up.
    

  
  
  There is an inherit problem with this setup though. We can't have level-less "Boss" enemies, since we'd need to know their exact level at all times.
  

Addendum

Actually, now that I've reread WindStrike's latest post, I can agree with picking more affinities = gain access to more spells. But leaves you vulnerable as well. Thus we simply drop the whole affinity-loss thing, and change the calculation to adding successes equal to half your Level, rounded up.

There is an inherit problem with this setup though. We can't have level-less "Boss" enemies, since we'd need to know their exact level at all times.

We can bypass this by adding an Innate Skill that essentially says Boss Mode or something, and then all the extra bonus stat stuff for that specific boss can be tossed in as bonuses for that Innate Skill, meaning bosses would still have levels, but that one innate would fix 'em up.

We can bypass this by adding an Innate Skill that essentially says Boss Mode or something, and then all the extra bonus stat stuff for that specific boss can be tossed in as bonuses for that Innate Skill, meaning bosses would still have levels, but that one innate would fix 'em up.

... the addendum actually fixes that, because it goes with your basic idea of affinity bonuses... Purely based on player level.

I am against the removal of Affinity Levels.
Affinity Levels are the main system that limits which spells players get, aside from the affinities they pick. Without Affinity Levels, someone who runs all affinities will get access to all spells in the game, which I am opposed to. I don't think the only drawback they should get is that they get hit by everything hard (and they get to hit everyone hard too), since that potentially makes them overpowered. If we still kept in Affinity levels, it would be much easier to balance the system in regards to multi-affinity builds. And Arcane should not be the "I don't want an affinity" affinity, it has evolved way past that now and fills an important niche in the game - Magic stealing and draining.
I am also against permanently setting affinities on character creation. I don't see any reason as to why shouldn't people be able to change their affinities outside of quests.

I'm interested to see how many actually want to switch away from the current system though. Ideas is fine and all, but is there actually an demand? I put up a poll for it, but keep the discussion in this thread please, we don't need to fracture discussion platform even more than we already do on IRC.

Poll: http://zurpg.sephiroth.ws/thread-932.html

I am also against permanently setting affinities on character creation. I don't see any reason as to why shouldn't people be able to change their affinities outside of quests.

Relax, there's still somethin' called "Respecing", we wouldn't be removing that should we take this system. It'd actually be not too expensive, buuuut it comes with the current downside in that it does not automatically respec your spells; you still have to acquire the spells of that affinity.

And Arcane should not be the "I don't want an affinity" affinity, it has evolved way past that now and fills an important niche in the game - Magic stealing and draining.

On the contrary, that's what it was originally designed for, to let people still have some degree of spells but not have to deal with the whole "oh yeah, this beats that, etc.". If we were to keep in the Magic stealing/draining thing, that'd fit the new overall theme of Shadow really well actually.


This suggestion was fired around in chat: dropping Arcane affinity altogether (moving its various specialties/spells around and over to other affinities) and then adding a [Basic Spells] tag, cause if everyone starts with that affinity anyways and it provides everyone access to the same spell list regardless of what they choose, it might as well just be a spell list you start with by default.

---

Now, regarding "having access to all spells in the game could be OP"... yes, having that large a variety of spells means theoretically, you can do just about anything.... but there's still a limiting factor: the number of actions per turn you get. A lot of spells is generally about counteracting others as a result of something they're doing or trying to Buff up, which again, takes time. Soooo if someone goes before you on the first round, hits you with a sword, gets a crit, and one-shots ya.... it doesn't matter what spells you have access to because before you're even able to cast a single one, you're dead. The one issue I've got with it is that it kinda makes it so you can't do all-affinity tank.... buuuuuut since tanking generally means goin' Nature and then maybe one other affinity anyways, that probably won't matter.


I'll have to weigh the various benefits of each system and put 'em all out in view for all to see, pros and cons and the like. I'd personally be cool with either system, but that's something that needs to be decided by a community vote.

I wonder, what is even the merit of fixing this system anyway? So far Sephiroth has posted reasons in to support his side which I fail to see as important. I don't see what important things we gain with changing the system around so much, as opposed to the important losses that I see coming.
Aside from the affinity bonuses/losses business (which is getting fixed anyway... I hope our proposed system actually works), I don't see any real problems with our current system.

Affinity Levels are the main system that limits which spells players get

Incorrect, Orithan. Spells are restricted both by affinity level -and- player level in their current form.

You wanted flexibility, so I put up a suggestion that keeps flexibility. But i guess you're even against having more flexibility than we have now. Which to me, makes absolutely no sense.

I wonder, what is even the merit of fixing this system anyway? So far Sephiroth has posted reasons in to support his side which I fail to see as important. I don't see what important things we gain with changing the system around so much, as opposed to the important losses that I see coming.
Aside from the affinity bonuses/losses business (which is getting fixed anyway... I hope our proposed system actually works), I don't see any real problems with our current system.

And I fail to see why your side is so important too. Did you not even read my last suggestion to its fullest?

Read up on Arcane here. ... Nutshell, Arcane is supposed to be the complete neutral affinity ... affinity. It wasn't supposed to have any special bonuses or quirks like it does now. It was supposed to be completely basic and generic.