One Affinity Per 10 Levels

Alright, pros/cons of each system, GO!

Current System:

• Gain a new affinity level every 5 levels.
  • Pros:
    • With a maximum of 11 natural affinity picks by the time you reach maximum level, you get a fair degree of customization, whether you want to go all-in on one affinity or try to spread it out, goin' multi-affinity. You can even go all affinities!
      
    • Higher levels into one affinity means getting a greater strength against the affinity it's strong against, giving greater reason to level into just one affinity.
      
    • More affinities means getting greater access to a wide variety of abilities. Granted, you're not as strong in one particular affinity as a result, so it's a trade-off.
      
  • Cons:
    • Dealing with multiple affinities is a pain, specifically when it comes to calculation shenanigans.
      
    • If going multiple affinities is supposed to give you a greater access to a variety of abilities, then why does it also match up in power with going single-element?
      
    • Also does not line-up with the tiering system, which scales every 10 levels.
      

Sephiroth's Suggested System Idea 1:

• Gain a new affinity level every 10 levels.
  • Pros:
    • With a maximum of 6 natural affinity picks by the time you reach maximum level, you still get a fair degree of customization, whether you want to go all-in on one affinity or try to spread it out, goin' multi-affinity. You can even go all affinities...... eventually.
      
    • Higher levels into one affinity means getting a greater strength against the affinity it's strong against, giving greater reason to level into just one affinity.
      
    • More affinities means getting greater access to a wide variety of abilities. Granted, you're not as strong in one particular affinity as a result, so it's a trade-off.
      
    • Lines up with the tiering system, which scales every 10 levels.
      
  • Cons:
    • Dealing with multiple affinities is a pain, specifically when it comes to calculation shenanigans.
      
    • If going multiple affinities is supposed to give you a greater access to a variety of abilities, then why does it also match up in power with going single-element?
      
    • Attempting to do the all-affinity build cannot be done until you hit maximum level.
      

Sephiroth's Suggest System Idea 2 (influenced by Nimono and Lunaria):

• Remove affinity levels completely.
  • Explanation:
    • You can pick any of the different affinities, between none and all of them.
      
    • By picking an affinity, you get access to all spells of that affinity.
      
    • However, by picking an affinity, you get a large vulnerability if someone of the opposing affinity attacks you. Said calculation is based on your level.
      
    • Likewise though, should you get more affinities, you have a greater ability to counter others of other affinities. Said calculation is based on your level. It's technically the same as the "large vulnerability".
      
  • Pros:
    • You can customize your character however you want, from the very start of the game!
      
    • No dealing with multiple-affinity calculation bullcrap.
      
    • Easy-to-calculate bonuses!
      
  • Cons:
    • A player selecting one affinity vs. a player selecting multiple affinities does not specialize in that one affinity greater than the person picking multiple affinities.
      
    • ... I think that's it?
      

WindStrike's system of "WHAT":

• Remove affinities completely.
  • Explanation:
    • WHAT
      
    • No seriously, this appears to be the primary issue with the game, so..... what happens if we just remove all the affinities in the game and then make it so players can get whatever spells suit their playstyle, still limited by level?
      
    • Each spell would still have a physical description that looks like it matches up with an affinity, and its effect would reflect that, but ultimately, you're not blocked from getting spells.
      
    • Or actually, we could throw in more stat-based requirements, ie explosive spells require greater Power to muster the explosive force, or spells that require great accuracy require greater Courage to pull off said accuracy. Anyhow...
      
  • Pros:
    • YOU CAN BUILD LITERALLY ANYTHING!
      
    • Mastery of spells comes with a mix of the Wisdom stat (spell power) and the Magic stat (how many spells you can cast and your ability to cast super powerful high-costing spells). No affinity bullcrap restricting your way!
      
    • The whole "this thing is strong against this other thing" and whatnot? Wouldn't have to worry about it, and honestly, we have enough of that between stats and effects, and based on your playstyle, you'll naturally have things you're strong against and things that pwn you anyways.
      
    • Overall, waaaaaaaay simpler.
      
  • Cons:
    • Personalization is simultaneously better in that you can build anything, but the sense of choosing your affinity to better define your character is gone. Debatable whether this is a good or bad thing.
      
    • Theoretically, if you got enough moneys and scrolls, you could have access to every single spell in the game!
      • That would be a loooooooooot of moneys/scrolls though, and I don't think that'd be possible even if the game goes on another 3 years with regular sessions.
        

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Looking at all of those, I'd have to say the system that fixes things the most and accounts for the greatest benefit of everyone in both accessibility and customization would actually be the removal of the affinity system entirely. Anyhow, opinions please!

I believe Sephiroth's 2nd proposal may be a viable option. It does so by:

1. Allowing affinities to have significant meaning in character development.
   
2. Removing the continual circle of complexity we've been struggling with for affinity strengths and weaknesses.
   
3. Enabling freedom of spell choice, with spells being designed horizontally: varying in effect instead of in power.
   
4. Reasserting Wisdom as the primary statistic for scaling the power of a spell, preventing early spells from becoming obsolete.
   
5. Reforms the experience of new players into something much more manageable to comprehend.
   

I think the only thing that would need to change would be the cost of acquisition of new spells, then, since spell availability is no longer level-constrained, I'm guessing. Perhaps this could be done allowing a free spell at intervals, with other spells available at relatively high cost.

Going off Windstrike's system of WHAT!, maybe we can still keep affinities.

Instead of nuking them completely, affinities can be re-purposed to become flat out bonuses as opposed to spell requirements.
The gist of how this would work is that many spells would have affinities, but they would not be requirements for using them. If you have an affinity that matches the spell, the spell gains a bonus (eg. increased successes for offensive, decreased Magic cost for support).
This way, we can keep affinities if we go this route and they can still be molded to fit your playstyle.

And yes, this includes affinity levels.

Hmm, it's like a cross between current system and Nimono's system. So pretty much, you can still get any spell you want, but specializing affinity levels will increase the overall purpose of that spell. Interestin'....

Actually, would it still be affinity levels, or would it just be affinities? If it's the latter, then there'd have to be restrictions or serious downsides to having multiple.

Alright, here is the system in detail

Affinity bonuses, only

Due to how many problems the affinity system has caused, in complicating things and in debating, maybe our current system is not adequate. Out of the problems the affinity system has caused, they are mostly in regards to Affinity Requirements and the Affinity Bonus/Loss system which are the core mechanics of the system. My solution to this: Remove these two things and replace them with something extraordinarily simple - Just Affinity Bonuses.

As the system says on the tin, the only thing Affinities do is provide you with bonuses. Nothing else, nada. As opposed to granting weaknesses/resistances and gating spell access, Affinities simply grant bonuses to their respective elemental attacks (spells for now). Where you would require Fire to cast PSI Fire, your Fire Affinity would provide the spell with bonus Damage equal to your Fire Affinity Level instead. Support Spells will be getting Affinity Bonuses too, usually boosting amounts given by EFFECTs or reducing Magic costs. For all but some low-levelled Support Spells, these bonuses get stronger as you continue to specialize in an affinity by increasing it's Affinity Level (for those spells, this is a flat bonus usually Magic cost reduction)

Examples

PSI Flare, Alpha

• ELEMENTS: Fire
  
• COSTS: 1 Magic
  
• DESCRIPTION: A basic Fire spell, PSI Flare hits one target.
  • Roll your Wisdom dice vs. targets' Wisdom dice
    • Damage: +0
      
    • Neutral Damage: 1
      
    • Affinity Bonus: Extra Neutral Damage equal to your Fire Affinity Level
      

Cold Wave, Alpha

• ELEMENTS: Water
  
• COSTS: 3 Magic
  
• DESCRIPTION: Fire a wave of freezing water a target.
  • Roll your Wisdom dice vs. targets' Wisdom dice
    • Damage: +0
      
    • EFFECT: Remove one stack of a Buff from the target.
      
    • Affinity Bonus: This attack gains Successes equal to your Water Affinity Level
      

Lightna Bolt, Alpha

• REQUIREMENTS: Level 10
  
• ELEMENTS: Fire and Nature
  
• COSTS: 4 Magic
  
• DESCRIPTION: Summon a searing, hot bolt of lightning that both zaps and burns one target.
  • EFFECT: This bypasses Cover.
    
  • Roll your Wisdom +3 dice vs. targets' Wisdom dice
    • Neutral Damage: $1d9
      
    • EFFECT: If it hits, burning sparks quickly shoot out from the target, automatically dealing 1 Neutral Damage to the target’s allies.
      
    • Affinity Bonus (Fire): The EFFECT's Neutral Damage is increased by your Fire Affinity Level/2
      
    • Affinity Bonus (Nature): The Neutral Damage roll against the target is increased by $0d#, where # = your Nature Affinity Level
      

Heal Beam, Alpha

• ELEMENTS: Nature
  
• COSTS: 2 Magic
  
• DESCRIPTION: A beam of fairy dust that shrouds a target, causing him to recover from their wounds.
  • EFFECT: Target recovers 5 Hearts
    
  • Affinity Bonus: The Hearts recovery amount is increased by your Nature Affinity Level
    

Second Chance

• REQUIREMENTS: Level 10
  
• ELEMENTS: Shadow
  
• COSTS: 4 Magic
  
• Affinity Bonus: If you have the Shadow affinity, this spell's Magic cost is reduced by 2, down to a minimum of 1 Magic.
  
• DESCRIPTION: Surround a target with a bubble of shadows that alter time and space around the target to a small extent.
  • EFFECT: Target gets one stack of the Second Chance Buff:
    • Once per round, target can reroll any of their rolls.
      
    • Stacking this only counts as a buffer.
      

Sun Storm, Alpha

• REQUIREMENTS: Level 20
  
• ELEMENTS: Water and Nature
  
• COSTS: 10 Magic
  
• DESCRIPTION: Creates a rainstorm that shines brightly, affecting all players on the field.
  • EFFECT: Summon the Sun Storm, Alpha Field Effect.
    • When this comes into play, cancel out and remove either a Fire-based Field Effect or a Water-based Field Effect.
      
    • At the start of each round, all players with Water or Nature affinity recover 4 Hearts and 4 Magic.
      
    • Fire Damage is reduced by 4.
      
  • Affinity Bonus (Water): The Fire Damage penalty invoked by Sun Storm is increased by your Water Affinity Level upon casting
    
  • Affinity Bonus (Nature): Both of Sun Storm's recovery amounts are increased by your Nature Affinity Level/2 upon casting

Within this system, certain Enemies are innately weak to certain elements and strong against others. These weaknesses/resistances are determined by their Innate Skills, usually their first one. For example, Light attacks just ignore Wizzrobes' Phasing ability and Gidbos (and similar undead enemies like Re-Deads) are especially vulnerable to being set on Fire. Just note that setting Gidbos or Re-Deads on Fire may not be such a good idea if your party is susceptible to death by poisonous stench ^.^

Winds WHAT! system + Orithans keep affinities for bonus damage/etc on spells seems like a good system to me, and it's one I can agree with.

I actually really like that system. Yeah, the affinities don't counter each other with numerical shenanigans, so what? If we build the affinities right, then the specializations of each affinity will counter each other without the need for this flat bonus/loss of "Water beats Fire" and whatnot, and then depending on how you build and play your character, you still have different strengths and weaknesses. It's still highly flexible, you can go one affinity or any number of affinities in specializations just fine, and it keeps things simple. So far, I'd have to say it's the best affinity system idea posted in here yet.

I definitely like Orithan's idea becauseit'stotallytheideaIhadinmind, put my vote in for it!

Looking at this again, the boost caused by affinities should bolster the primary purpose of the spell. If it's something like +# Successes for all Offensive Spells, then we might as well just remove the affinities and add Wisdom to everyone, thereby counteracting it. The reason I was against this before was due to interactions between players (affinities beating each other out), it got really complex, but since specialization in affinity now just means "you do that stuff better", then let's make sure that if we go with this system, the boost from the affinity amplifies the role of the spell, regardless of the spell or type of spell. It will also require some careful balancing, cause we want to make sure that the weakest form of it is still useful. It may require a more specific build in order to make use of that, but that should be the intention at all forms of said spell.


EDIT: Also, if you can cast any spell, as long as you have it and regardless of your affinity.... there is no actual need for multi-affinity spells. In our current system, they're fine, but if we switch to this... I'm in favor of just shifting them to single-affinities and thus giving the players more options, because rather than go something like "ah-hah, I'm a Red Wizzrobe, and I can use Decimate, which requires Fire and Shadow", we can have "ah-hah, I just have Fire affinity, and I can use Decimate; also, I have Shadow affinity, so I can cast Second Chance as well!"


I like being able to have multiple affinities for sure. But keep in mind there's more combinations than there are single affinities, meaning in order to specialize multi-affinity spells, you'd have to be building something very specific, which counteracts the idea of customization/personalization for players. Multi-affinity spells can work.... but it requires a system that supports an equality of usefulness and flexibility between single-affinity spells and multi-affinity spells. Which ZURPG ain't.


For the record though, it will be fine to keep multi-affinity stuff on Signature Moves and Personal Items because they're already tailored to the player, so no one else can/will use it anyways.

Rest assured, the bonuses won't be all bonus successes and whatnot